ImproveMathEquationEditor/IRCMeetings/May2010/7th May2010
This page is the IRC log of the 7th May 2010 IRC meeting ( #education.openoffice.org ) with students for Google SoC 2010.
Back to May 2010
[18:00] <ericb2> Fridrich: jopsen : looks like Michal is not there. Let's start anyway ?
[18:01] <Fridrich> as you wish
[18:01] <jopsen> fine with me...
[18:01] <ericb2> ok, let's start something lighter than expected
[18:01] <Fridrich> ericb2: did you have any answer from michal though?
[18:02] <ericb2> Fridrich: he was ok
[18:02] <ericb2> Fridrich: everybody was ok
[18:02] <ericb2> ok, let's start
[18:02] <ericb2> The Agenda was :
[18:02] <ericb2> - presentations (briefly)
[18:02] <ericb2> - agree the process (wiki, ... , and so on)
[18:02] <ericb2> - discuss and agree a plan for every student
[18:02] <ericb2> - misc question
[18:03] <ericb2> I suggest to postpone the presentations, when everybody will be there
[18:03] <jopsen> agree...
[18:03] <Fridrich> ok
[18:03] <ericb2> Next point is : agree the process (wiki, ... , and so on
[18:04] <ericb2> what I'd like to say, is how important it is to work regularly, and be often on the channel. To be able to react quickly when something wrong occurs
[18:04] <ericb2> My experience with students has shown me that this is a key point
[18:05] <jopsen> sounds like a good idea...
[18:05] <ericb2> next request is to use a wiki, and provide the links to all : Fridrich and me, so, we'll be able to follow regularly from our side
[18:05] <ericb2> the wiki has a great feature : the diff
[18:05] <jopsen> :)
[18:06] <ericb2> and this helps to see the progress, and more ;)
[18:06] <jopsen> yeah... especially when I'm not committing anything...
[18:06] <ericb2> jopsen: do you write everything you do
[18:06] <ericb2> jopsen: like log on text file, or whatever similar solution ?
[18:07] <jopsen> *everything* no...
[18:07] <ericb2> jopsen: ok, so try to improve. The first step is always the most important
[18:07] jopsen julien_BLUG JZA
[18:07] <jopsen> But notes on the overall progress and notes on how I intend to address issues sounds great...
[18:08] <ericb2> jopsen: I read them , and thats correct, indeed
[18:08] <ericb2> jopsen: but a timeline is mandatory : you must take this habits, to manage time and space
[18:08] <jopsen> BTW what are your thoughts on pushing the starmath module to a public git server... ?
[18:08] <ericb2> jopsen: I'm not sure to understand ?
[18:08] <jopsen> Sure...
[18:09] <jopsen> Well, as I've understood it you want to see patches...
[18:09] <jopsen> But a patch partial patch isn't worth much... Or is it.. ?
[18:09] <jopsen> I mean, what do you suggest in terms of codereview during development
[18:09] <ericb2> jopsen: Fridrich can answer there : I think you should be able to create your own tree, and we'll follow you this way. pushing/pulling code. Fridrich , do you confirm ?
[18:10] <ericb2> jopsen: did you ask for a commit access on freedesktop.org ?
[18:10] <jopsen> that was my thought too...
[18:10] <jopsen> no... but don't go-oo manage everything as .diff files ?
[18:10] <Fridrich> for code-review, mailing a patch to the ooo-build mailing list is the best option
[18:11] <ericb2> Fridrich: thanks
[18:11] <ericb2> jopsen: so we'll work with that: a given tree, and working with it for everything
[18:11] <jopsen> okay...
[18:12] <jopsen> I guess I'll just get used to working with .diff files... :)
[18:12] <ericb2> jopsen: if you have questions, feel free to ask
[18:12] <ericb2> jopsen: say at the end of the meeting ?
[18:12] <Fridrich> jopsen: it is just easy once you get to use the right tool
[18:13] <jopsen> Sure...
[18:13] <jopsen> It's not a problem it just makes in rather uncomfortable to commit often
[18:13] <jopsen> commit or publish... but it's not a critical issue...
[18:14] <jopsen> But I'm okay, with logging my activity on the wiki... so that you can track my progress... So the process seems fine to me...
[18:14] <ericb2> jopsen: about methodology : did you, at the end, succeeed with debugging starmath ?
[18:15] <Fridrich> jopsen: we can see whether we don't do a branch for each one of you and that would maybe be a good solution
[18:15] <Fridrich> will see next week with other peopel
[18:15] <ericb2> jopsen: several points : 1) rebuild with symbols inside the libsmm, 2) replace the lib 3) debug and set breakpoints
[18:16] <ericb2> jopsen: can you confirm all are ok, means you see colored rectangles ?
[18:16] <ericb2> ... when writing an equation
[18:16] <jopsen> I think I tried that running starmath under a debugger...
[18:16] <ericb2> jopsen: and ?
[18:16] <jopsen> haven't activated colored rectangles yet...
[18:17] <ericb2> jopsen: so the symbols are not inside
[18:17] <ericb2> jopsen: the reason is simple: you need to ix the build when doing: build debug=t
[18:17] <jopsen> okay...
[18:17] <ericb2> jopsen: some genious broken the build a while ago
[18:17] <ericb2> QA is fantastic .. :)
[18:18] <jopsen> okay... it was also a while since I've been debugging it...
[18:18] <ericb2> jopsen: so I invite you to be easy with debugging. This is another key point
[18:18] <Fridrich> other way would be to have a linkoo-ed install
[18:18] <ericb2> Fridrich: agreed
[18:19] * ericb2 would like to summarize
[18:19] <Fridrich> in that case rebuilding the module with debug should provide immediately the possibility to use the debug binaries
[18:19] <ericb2> Fridrich: where is documented the linkoo use ?
[18:19] <ericb2> Fridrich: is it a patch, or something like that to be applied ?
[18:19] <Fridrich> in ooo-build you simply do ./bin/ooinstall -l /some/directory
[18:20] <Fridrich> it will install it there and then will link the *.so back to the build directory
[18:20] <jopsen> did make dev-install, but it should do the same...
[18:20] <ericb2> Fridrich: in fact, I know what do. Was just lazy to create my own patch for OOo4Kids ;-)
[18:21] <ericb2> ok, so as first task (and I'll ask the same to Michal once I'll catch him) :
[18:21] <Fridrich> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Installing
[18:21] <ericb2> Fridrich: thank you :)
[18:21] <ericb2> back to the initial task :
[18:21] <ericb2> be sure the debug mode works
[18:22] <ericb2> trace the math editor, and be easy with the parser, the rectangles and the nodes
[18:22] <Fridrich> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Hacking#Linkoo_.26_Limitations
[18:22] <Fridrich> true
[18:22] <jopsen> \me added to his todo: Enable debugmode with fancy colored rectangles...
[18:23] <ericb2> jopsen: I'm not joking : once you got them, you just start the study ...
[18:23] <ericb2> jopsen: and debug is not that easy, that's why learn code, and define objectives in parallel is mandatory
[18:24] <jopsen> did also add it to my todo...
[18:24] <ericb2> jopsen: I read your list, and that's ok
[18:24] * ericb2 will catch Michal very soon
[18:24] <ericb2> jopsen: so, you'll work on the cursor thing
[18:25] <jopsen> yes... I assume that what you want...
[18:25] <ericb2> jopsen: do not what I want, but what has to be done ;)
[18:25] <ericb2> jopsen: I can be wrong sometimes, like everybody
[18:26] <Fridrich> ericb2: you can be wrong? don't tell that in the beginning of week-end, my certainties have to be untouched until Monday<
[18:26] <ericb2> Fridrich: lol :)
[18:27] <ericb2> next meeting : next friday, same day same hour ?
[18:27] <Fridrich> ericb2: but I understand jopsen. He said, "you" as for "us"
[18:27] <Fridrich> great
[18:28] <jopsen> hmm... how about... thursday...
[18:28] <Fridrich> maybe good idea, since friday is for many drinking day :)
[18:29] <ericb2> jopsen: when ?
[18:29] <ericb2> Fridrich: :p
[18:29] <ericb2> jopsen: same hour ?
[18:29] <jopsen> anytime after 16.00... or when it suits michal if he want's to join...
[18:30] <Fridrich> ericb2: thanks a lot for doing a good job
[18:30] <ericb2> jopsen: 16h30 is fine
[18:30] <jopsen> sure... 17.30 is fine...
[18:30] <Fridrich> ericb2: will you catch michal?
[18:30] <ericb2> Fridrich: you're welcome
[18:30] <ericb2> Fridrich: sure I will
[18:30] <Fridrich> you rock
[18:30] <ericb2> jopsen: so I'd prefer 18:00
[18:30] <jopsen> fine with me...
[18:31] <ericb2> jopsen: got to drive my daughter to sport, sorry
[18:31] <Fridrich> 18:00 is such a bad time for me because kids are coming from school and being all around the place
[18:31] * Michal_Spisiak (~chatzilla@stu405.sjc.ox.ac.uk) has joined #education.openoffice.org
[18:31] <ericb2> Fridrich: jopsen: ok, then next meeting is next week 18:00
[18:31] <Fridrich> Michal_Spisiak: ahoj
[18:31] <Michal_Spisiak> hi
[18:31] <ericb2> Michal_Spisiak: hello :)
[18:31] <Michal_Spisiak> cau
[18:31] <Michal_Spisiak> do we wait for smbody?
[18:32] <ericb2> you ?
[18:32] <ericb2> :-)
[18:32] <Michal_Spisiak> :) well, I'm here now
[18:33] <Michal_Spisiak> am I not on time?
[18:33] <ericb2> Fridrich: jopsen : do you still have some time ?
[18:33] <jopsen> Michal: winter time... maybe... :)
[18:33] <Fridrich> yup
[18:33] <jopsen> sure...
[18:33] <Michal_Spisiak> what?
[18:33] <ericb2> Ok, so the first point : presentations was postponed
[18:33] <ericb2> let's do it ?
[18:34] <Michal_Spisiak> ergh
[18:34] <ericb2> fast presentations, no need to write a book ;)
[18:35] <Fridrich> kde bolo tam bolo, za siedmimi horami a siedmimi dolami
[18:35] <Fridrich> ericb2: that you will not understand
[18:35] <Michal_Spisiak> kde sa piesok lial a voda sypala
[18:36] * Michal_Spisiak is now known as MichalS
[18:37] * MichalS is now known as Spiso
[18:37] <Spiso> finally
[18:38] <ericb2> ok, so since the presentations are .. short :) let's summarize
[18:38] <Fridrich> ;)
[18:38] <Spiso> go on
[18:38] <ericb2> Spiso: I see you used a wiki too ?
[18:39] <Spiso> yes, I wrote you an e-mail
[18:39] <ericb2> Spiso: I'll answer you very soon
[18:39] <Spiso> which I'm not sure you read, as for the past experiences
[18:40] <Fridrich> the best thing for all of you people will be to hang tight on ericb2. I will have a fresh baby in the summer, so I might be a bit busy
[18:40] <ericb2> Spiso: I read it, but I'd like to answer you in "misc" at the end of the meeting
[18:40] <Spiso> alright
[18:41] <Spiso> how do you imagine the presentation then?
[18:42] <ericb2> Spiso: can you tell me more ? Must be my bad english, but I don't get hat you mean
[18:43] <Spiso> I wrote nothing important, just made a comment meaning that let's say what has to be said
[18:43] <Spiso> or I should ask questions?
[18:43] <ericb2> @all : the IRC meeting will be logged there : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ImproveMathEquationEditor/IRCMeetings/May2010/7th_May2010
[18:44] * ericb2 will complete progressively
[18:44] <Fridrich> ericb2: he was just asking what the presentations mean. so that we can make them
[18:45] <jopsen> \me suggests a 4-tuple of (name, country, work, color of toothbrush)
[18:46] <ericb2> jopsen: yes, something like that
[18:47] <jopsen> (Jonas, Denmark, CS Student, Blue) and will be improving the visual equation editor to work a like MathType, just better :)
[18:47] <Fridrich> (Fridrich, Switzerland, SWE, no teeth)
[18:48] <Spiso> uhm, if you say so... (Michal, Slovakia, M student, yellow I think)
[18:48] <Spiso> and I'm working on alignment for that matter
[18:49] <Fridrich> for eric it is: (Eric, France, Physics Professor, Corega Tabs)
[18:49] <ericb2> lol :)
[18:49] <ericb2> Fridrich: thank you
[18:49] <ericb2> if I can add information :
[18:49] <ericb2> Spiso: Jonas (aka jopsen there) uses : http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ooo-build/SummerOfCode/2010/Jonas
[18:49] <ericb2> Spiso: where is your wiki page ?
[18:50] <Spiso> well nowhere, for the project I'm using yours http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ImproveMathEquationEditor/Baseline_AlignmentEquations
[18:51] <ericb2> Spiso: ok, but if you can modify something, you must be logged in, and if so, you should havea personnal page ?
[18:51] <Spiso> yes, I'm logged, but didn't put there anything
[18:52] <ericb2> Spiso: probably http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Users:MSpisiak
[18:52] <ericb2> Spiso: can you confirm us, that you'll put everything there ?
[18:52] * Fridrich does not have personal page either, but I also still remember to program in fortran on punch cards, so this computer stuff is a bit new for me
[18:52] <Fridrich> Just to give you background:
[18:52] <Fridrich> 1) You are all six our GSoC students brilliant people
[18:53] <Spiso> what you mean by everything? I meant to work with the one you created?
[18:53] <Spiso> sorry, there should be no question mark at the end
[18:53] <Fridrich> 2) In the past we had experiences where brilliant people when not focused did not pass mid-terms because of problems to show progress and lack of communications
[18:54] <ericb2> Spiso: that's nice, but where will you log what you do, say everay day, or two days ?
[18:54] <Fridrich> 3) we don't want that to happen this year
[18:54] <Fridrich> 4) so we focus on communication in this first phase so that we can focus on work in the following ones
[18:54] Fridrich froumi
[18:54] <ericb2> Fridrich: +1
[18:55] <jopsen> sounds good...
[18:56] <Fridrich> I would even contend that an e-mail to ooo-build mailing list daily to notify about progress is the best thing
[18:56] <Spiso> alright so I should write there how was my today's trace what I was trying to do, what found out and such like
[18:56] <ericb2> Spiso: not everything, but the most important
[18:56] <Fridrich> people will have to go to wiki to read wiki, they chew their e-mail with morning coffee and will know what happens
[18:57] <Spiso> well, but if daily, than they would have to have litres of morning coffee
[18:57] <ericb2> Spiso: this is Summer of code ;-)
[18:57] <Fridrich> Last year, that one way allowed people that are not mentoring, but have expertise, to pinch in
[18:57] <Fridrich> Spiso: coffee is not a problem
[18:57] <Fridrich> it is cheap and it is everywhere
[18:58] <Fridrich> Spiso: but if you insist with morning Slivovica will work too
[18:58] <Spiso> okey
[18:58] <Spiso> well, I wouldn't do much work that day if I drank it in the morning
[18:59] <Fridrich> ake si ty slovacisko
[18:59] <Fridrich> ;)
[18:59] <ericb2> I propose the final part : misc questions
[18:59] <Fridrich> ok
[18:59] <jopsen> fine...
[19:00] <ericb2> Spiso: before, a detail : we proposed the next IRC meeting next week, on thursday 18:00
[19:00] <ericb2> Spiso: your questions now ?
[19:00] <Spiso> what is your time now?
[19:00] <Spiso> 6?
[19:00] <Fridrich> 19:00
[19:00] <ericb2> Spiso: 19:00
[19:00] <Spiso> because we cheked it before?
[19:00] <Spiso> didn't we?
[19:01] <ericb2> Spiso: we did, before you arrive. That's why we need your opinion
[19:01] <ericb2> Spiso: if not possible, we'll search another time
[19:01] <Spiso> it's fine
[19:02] <ericb2> OK .. so next meeting defintely Thursday 13rd May 18:00 CEST
[19:02] <Spiso> I meant that some day before I checked with you that we have the same time and you said yes
[19:02] <Spiso> okey
[19:02] <Fridrich> ok
[19:03] <Fridrich> ko
[19:03] <ericb2> Spiso: the first question, about operator use, is a question I'll answer on the wki
[19:03] <Fridrich> have to go to bathe the kids
[19:03] <jopsen> great...
[19:03] <Spiso> my questions were in the email, just some syntax thing
[19:03] Fridrich froumi
[19:03] <Spiso> will you add it there?
[19:03] <ericb2> Fridrich: ok, no problem : the log will tell you
[19:03] <ericb2> Spiso: in fact, I'd have prefered to see your questions on the ooo-build list
[19:04] <ericb2> Spiso: we should start with public questions, thus everybody will be able to help
[19:04] <Spiso> I'm not very keen on spoiling mailing lists
[19:04] <Fridrich> Spiso: it is not about spoiling, it is about many heads that have more brain
[19:05] <ericb2> Spiso: you shouldn't : this is the best place. Don't imagine everybody knows everything
[19:05] <jopsen> Spiso: And more students not asking the same questions :)
[19:05] <Spiso> I thought that it's just smth stupid what you can answer in one sentense
[19:05] <ericb2> Spiso: don't state too much ;-)
[19:05] <Fridrich> Spiso: we are all somehow stupid, so don't care about image :)
[19:06] <ericb2> Spiso: the second question attracted my attention : you are right there is something wrong
[19:06] * ericb2 will paste the question
[19:06] <Spiso> but the code looks like it works
[19:06] <Spiso> maybe it's just in your documentation of code
[19:07] <Spiso> I'm going to check it through gdb
[19:07] <ericb2> Spiso: maybe, but not yet the part about operators
[19:07] <ericb2> Spiso: the question was:
[19:07] <ericb2> the second thing which I was really confused with is again in SmBinVerNode::Arrange the last line:
[19:07] <ericb2> 01130 ExtendBy(*pDenom, RCP_NONE).ExtendBy(*pLine, RCP_NONE, pLine->GetCenterY());
[19:07] <ericb2> What is the dot in the middle doing there?
[19:07] <Spiso> I know
[19:07] <ericb2> Spiso: ah, ok
[19:08] <ericb2> Spiso: will you be online tonight ?
[19:08] <ericb2> Spiso: this will let you some time to read the wiki page I wrote, and then we'll try to answer the first question, about operator's use ?
[19:09] <Spiso> I've got a meet up at 9pm (your 10) I'll be that time
[19:09] <Spiso> ... I'll be until then
[19:09] <ericb2> Spiso: ok, I'll be there anyway
[19:09] <ericb2> Spiso: just ping me in one hur
[19:09] <Spiso> do you have to go noe?
[19:09] <Spiso> now?
[19:10] <ericb2> Spiso: yes, I do : dinner time, and my wife already asked me ;)
[19:10] <ericb2> Spiso: so I'll be back in ~ 45 minutes
[19:10] <Spiso> just go :)
[19:10] <ericb2> Spiso: is it ok ?
[19:10] <Spiso> yes
[19:10] <ericb2> jopsen: Spiso : let's consider the meeting is over ?
[19:10] <Spiso> ok
[19:10] <jopsen> ok..
[19:11] * ericb2 has changed the topic to: "Welcome on OpenOffice.org Education Project IRC channel ! Mailing list: dev@education.openoffice.org Wiki: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project. Please visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project/Effort , next IRC meeting: Thursday 13rd May 2010 16:00 UTC, 18:00 CEST (Par
[19:11] <ericb2> see you later
