IRCMeetings/september2010/30th september

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Scheduled : IRC meeting with students from Worcester State University.

Agenda:


Proposed date / hour : Wednesday 29th September 3:00pm ( 21h CEST Paris, Hamburg)


Attendees :


Log coming soon

[21:11] * ericb2 back

[21:11] <ericb2> apologies

[21:11] <paulszy> ericb2: its ok.

[21:12] <ericb2> Ok then meeting can start

[21:12] <mathewdellomo> ericb2: hello

[21:12] <mathewdellomo> ericb2: yes

[21:12] <paulszy> ericb2: jblairsmith is here also, but not logged in.

[21:12] <ericb2> Agenda:

[21:12] <ericb2> * welcome students,

[21:12] <ericb2> * present the Project, how we work

[21:12] <ericb2> * propose ideas (the [New Writer Wizard] is the current choice )

[21:12] <ericb2> * target the follow up

[21:13] <ericb2> @all, be welcome :)

[21:13] <paulszy> ericb2: thank you for meeting with us.

[21:13] <ericb2> this is always the first part of a meeting : welcome newcomers, students

[21:14] <ericb2> Maybe someone can present the Worcester University  ?

[21:14] <ericb2> this is the first time we have students form there

[21:14] <paulszy> ericb2: yes I will.

[21:15] <ericb2> paulszy: thanks

[21:16] <ericb2> paulszy: a fast presentation

[21:16] <ericb2> no need to write a book  ;)

[21:17] <paulszy> ericb2: we are four students from worcester state university that are interested in working on the ooo4Kids project.

[21:19] <paulszy> ericb2: Maybe I don't follow what you mean by present...

[21:20] <ericb2> paulszy: that's ok. and our contact with the school is Karl R. Wurst , Professor and Chair of Computer Science at Worcester State University

[21:20] <ericb2> Computer Science Department

[21:21] <paulszy> ericb2: That is correct.

[21:21] <ericb2> paulszy: and great. We really appreciate.

[21:21] <ericb2> paulszy: last, I'd like to remember all the first names and to associate the nicknames with

[21:22] <ericb2> paulszy: you are 4 and I need to remember :)

[21:23] <paulszy> eric2b: paul - paulszy, jim - jblairsmith, mat - mathewdellomo, jon - dashboard5432

[21:23] <ericb2> awesome ^^

[21:24] <ericb2> before to start with next point, somebody want to say something else ?

[21:24] <paulszy> ericb2: will we have time for questions?

[21:25] <ericb2> paulszy: sure

[21:25] <paulszy> ericb2: now or later ?

[21:25] <ericb2> paulszy: please ask now.

[21:26] <paulszy> ericb2: are we going to be given our own subversion branch, or are we going to need make our own ?

[21:27] * paulszy is now known as jblairsmith

[21:27] <ericb2> paulszy: I think you'll download one revision, and work on it as long as possible

[21:27] <jblairsmith> ericb2: but as far as passing what we're working on between group members?

[21:27] jblairsmith JZA jza_

[21:28] <ericb2> jblairsmith: ah, well, I think you'll have to work with patches

[21:28] <ericb2> jblairsmith: imho, not everybody will code

[21:28] jblairsmith JZA jza_

[21:29] <jblairsmith> ericb2: 2nd Question, is the wiki up to date, as far as the Environment Setup is concerned?

[21:29] <ericb2> jblairsmith: there is a lot of work, and I often ask people to share the job : one writes documentation, one other code .. and there is a lot to do

[21:29] <ericb2> jblairsmith: hm, it should. what is your problem ?

[21:29] <jblairsmith> ericb2: That makes sense, thank you.

[21:30] <jblairsmith> ericb2: I want to make sure the source we're downloading with the svn command is what we'll be working on, ie up to date.

[21:30] <ericb2> jblairsmith: that's easy to keep it up to date, for several reasons : the first one is, you'll write advanced code

[21:31] <ericb2> jblairsmith: the second one, is if some update occurs, this will be easy for you to resync, as long as the new code does not concern the module you are working in

[21:31] <ericb2> jblairsmith: and last, there is a bot on the channel : CIA-24 for instance, who will post all the commits the devs do

[21:32] <ericb2> jblairsmith: so, just keep one eye on the channel, or watch regularly : http://cia.vc/stats/project/OOo4Kids

[21:33] <jblairsmith> ericb2: Right now we're each at a different stage working through the Environment Setup and build

[21:33] <ericb2> ok

[21:33] <ericb2> Next point ?

[21:34] <jblairsmith> ericb2: You wanted us to have a wiki page to track our changes/progress; will we be able to have a single page that the four of us keep updated?

[21:36] <ericb2> jblairsmith: this is really no problem

[21:36] <ericb2> jblairsmith: and we can even create a page with the logo of your school .. and so on

[21:36] <jblairsmith> ericb2: That sounds great

[21:37] <ericb2> jblairsmith: this leads me to point 2

[21:37] <ericb2> Point 2: present the Project, how we work

[21:37] <ericb2> At the origin, we are part of the OpenOffice.org Education Project

[21:38] <ericb2> due to internal politics, we had to find external resources, like the wiki and some other places

[21:39] <ericb2> because we had no resources, some people including me, created EducOOo, a non profit association, dedicated to the OpenOffice.org Education Project

[21:39] <ericb2> Our goals now : first over all is to create a bridge with the Educational world

[21:40] <ericb2> the second is to work with students, on the code (we need coders)

[21:40] <ericb2> the third goal is to create and provide free and open resources

[21:40] <ericb2> using open licenses .. and so on

[21:41] <ericb2> This way, since a bit more than 2 years, we use to work with students, and we mentor them, teaching what we know, the best we can

[21:42] <ericb2> We ask the students to be serious and to work regularly

[21:42] <ericb2> this is an extremely important factor of success

[21:42] <ericb2> sometimes, things do not work, sometimes, things are extremely Fun, and work well

[21:43] <ericb2> Basicaly, we define tasks, associated to a planning, and periodic reviews.

[21:44] <ericb2> the planning is as precise as possible, and we try to assume one IRC meeting per week

[21:44] <ericb2> this is an important key for success too

[21:44] <ericb2> questions maybe ?

[21:45] <ericb2> To avoid spare time, I think we'll progressively adjust everything

[21:45] <jblairsmith> ericb2: We don't have any questions.

[21:46] <ericb2> Point 3 : propose ideas (the [New Writer Wizard] is the current choice )

[21:46] <ericb2> We agreed to work on the new Writer Wizard. Still ok ?

[21:46] <ericb2> The link : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/NewWriterWizard

[21:47] <jblairsmith> ericb2: We are all in agreement that we will work on the New Writer Wizard.

[21:47] <ericb2> jblairsmith: great

[21:47] <jblairsmith> ericb2: Though I must add we all have a lot to learn.

[21:47] <ericb2> From my side, I found the old patches and I'll verify they still apply without problem

[21:48] <ericb2> jblairsmith: this is normal, and the best, is to proceeed incrementaly.

[21:48] <ericb2> starting now, I suggest to everybody of your team to :

[21:48] <ericb2> - create a personnal page on the wiki ( the User:your_login page)

[21:49] <ericb2> - add daily information, about what you did. Even if you did nothing ;)

[21:49] <ericb2> - join the channel at least every two days. Every days is perfect

[21:49] <ericb2> from my side, I'll explain all the steps

[21:50] <ericb2> for the one coding: it is obligatory to document the same day (the later) the code you wrote

[21:51] <ericb2> document, means describe the ideas, provide a class diagram, whatever in relation with the job done

[21:51] <ericb2> @all : this is not much of work, just one good habit

[21:52] <ericb2> and no need to hurry. If the work is not finished, that's not a problem. The goal is to document enough for the next one who will join

[21:52] <ericb2> Questions ?

[21:53] <ericb2> Of course, we'll help you for the build, to learn the essential, to debug, how to generate and apply patches, and more

[21:53] <jblairsmith> ericb2: So we'll be documenting on individual wiki pages, not a consolidated WSU page?

[21:53] <ericb2> jblairsmith: both

[21:53] <ericb2> jblairsmith: we trust you, to do this between you, and we'll help you if something goes wrong

[21:53] jblairsmith JZA jza_

[21:54] <jblairsmith> ericb2: So the personal page is more subjective, while the group page is formal?

[21:54] <ericb2> jblairsmith: I forgot : we'll consider you as devs, like all the one on the channel

[21:54] <ericb2> jblairsmith: you can say that

[21:54] <ericb2> jblairsmith: but nothing is formal. We just do our best, and try to be serious

[21:55] <jblairsmith> Alright, I think we understand what you want.

[21:55] <ericb2> jblairsmith: and if not, come often will help ;)

[21:55] <jblairsmith> ericb2: Thank you again for adjusting your schedule for us.

[21:56] <ericb2> jblairsmith: you're welcome :)

[21:56] <mathewdellomo> ericb2: Thank You

[21:56] <ericb2> I'll start the work on the wiki

[21:56] <ericb2> and write a todo list

[21:56] <jblairsmith> ericb2: That sounds great

[21:57] <ericb2> Everyone will peek one or several tasks, adding his name

[21:57] <ericb2> no need to take more than two

[21:57] <ericb2> just start with one, and we'll see and adjust

[21:57] <ericb2> of course, we could propose you some ClassRooms e.g. to learn the tools

[21:58] <jblairsmith> ericb2: That could be really useful

[21:58] <ericb2> jblairsmith: just ask

[21:59] <ericb2> jblairsmith: I prefer people saying I don't know, than people hidding and doing nothing, just because of one little misunderstanding

[21:59] <jblairsmith> erib2: Do you have an example template of how you want the individual wikis to look?

[22:00] <ericb2> jblairsmith: I think Michal's diary can be a good template, but we do not force to follow one.

[22:00] <ericb2> jblairsmith: just take care to create sub-pages, not on the root of the wiki

[22:01] <ericb2> jblairsmith: else, you are free to organize your page as you want. Just keep in mind the wiki is public ;-)

[22:02] <ericb2> If I remember correctly, the end of the application is scheduled for end November / early December, right ?

[22:02] <jblairsmith> ericb2: That is correct.

[22:03] <ericb2> ok. This will help me for the planning

[22:03] <ericb2> Roughly, the study will be divided in :

[22:03] <ericb2> build your own set

[22:04] <ericb2> leanr how to apply patches, and be confortable with gdb

[22:04] <ericb2> learn

[22:05] <ericb2> document what I did, complete the interface (in case I was wrong), and start the implementation

[22:05] <ericb2> this will lead to discover how the user Interface works in the code, how actions are triggered, and executed, and a lot of important things

[22:06] <ericb2> next step will be : add the missing methods, and try to compile them

[22:06] <ericb2> once done, the first iterations for the tests will start

[22:06] <ericb2> then, make a point, and validate, or improve the model

[22:07] <ericb2> currently, I prefer limit the aplication at this point

[22:07] <ericb2> if we can do that, I'll be happy :)

[22:08] <ericb2> mathewdellomo: jblairsmith does this application fit your skills ?

[22:09] <mathewdellomo> ericb2: yes

[22:09] <jblairsmith> ericb2: We will have to learn as we go.

[22:10] <ericb2> jblairsmith: first step : build your own set. If you have problem, this is not a bad idea to paste at some sites like paste.lisp.org or something, and we'll help you

[22:11] <jblairsmith> ericb2: By "build your own set" you mean follow the Environment Setup page?

[22:11] <ericb2> please noticce carefully your problem, and how it was solved. Never give up : fix the current issue before to start with the next one

[22:11] <ericb2> jblairsmith: yes. You'll need to build at least OOo4Kids, to write your own code, and do more (debug ...and so on)

[22:12] <ericb2> jblairsmith: without your own set, there is no way to work seriously

[22:12] <ericb2> Last point : next IRC meeting will be ... ?

[22:12] <jblairsmith> ericb2: Makes sense, I just wanted to make sure that what we've been working on was correct.

[22:13] <jblairsmith> ericb2: Would this time each week be inconvenient for you?

[22:13] <ericb2> jblairsmith: this is ok for me. This week I was awfully late, and will not redo every week

[22:14] <jblairsmith> ericb2: Some of our group may be using the same console, but we will all be present for the meetings.

[22:14] <ericb2> so next IRC meeting is scheduled on Wednesday 6 October , 3:00pm, 21:00 CEST Paris, Hamburg hour

[22:17] <ericb2> To finish the meeting, the log will be avalaible at: http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/IRCMeetings/september2010/30th_september

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