Wiki.ooo4kids.org:Current events/LogEducOOoInternationalCreationMay2011/log part1

Log Part 1 : 12 May 2011
Back to Meeting 12 & 13 May 2011

[20:31]  I am here for the meeting

[20:32]  Me too.

[20:33]  ericb2: ping shall we start?

[20:37] sorry, i help a website in emergency

[20:40] Jzarecta: yes, we can

[20:41]  hi all

[20:41]  ericb2: great

[20:41] * Jzarecta is now known as JZA

[20:41] Jzarecta: not everything is ready, but the idea is to follow this scheme :

[20:41]  ok

[20:42] create .po files form existing .sdf files

[20:42] then

[20:42] the translators will be able to work, complete the existing translations

[20:42] at the end, we'll try to use .po directly

[20:43] if I'm not wrong, the translator kit (maybe not the exact name) could be integrated in the build system in that purpose

[20:43]  there was a question regarding the current sdf files.

[20:43] please

[20:44] FYI : the agenda

[20:44] http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Wiki.ooo4kids.org:Current_events

[20:44]     *  Point 1: Localization : current state, tools

[20:44]     * Point 2: Current process, and the new idea

[20:45] sorry, I mixed the points

[20:45] JZA: what was the question ?

[20:46]  ericb2: where can we get the current SDF, the old sdf on the repo are pretty old.

[20:46] JZA: we currently use OOo 3.2.1 .sdf

[20:47]  ericb2: ok there have been no new strings on the latest builds?

[20:47] JZA:  I only managed the OOo4Kids / OOoLight dedicated strings

[20:47] any volunteer is welcome

[20:48]  ericb2: good.

[20:48]  I can help

[20:48]  ericb2: Translation Toolkit.

[20:48] olorin_: thanks :)

[20:49] * sylvaintechnic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[20:50]  ericb2: so we just use desktop po editors and then submit via ticket or VCS?

[20:50] JZA: yes

[20:50] JZA: + the integration process, at buildtime

[20:51] JZA: Andrea, managed by Marina is working on that, and will make a point tomorrow

[20:51]  so are we officially dismissing transifex and pootle as alternatives?

[20:52]  Not me...

[20:52] JZA: there is missing information

[20:52] JZA: I'd like to add figures

[20:52]  I can't see why we're not on Pootle.

[20:52] currently, OOo4Kids has been downloaded a bit less than 820, 000 times

[20:52] <JZA> olorin_: maybe because is hard to integrate?

[20:53] olorin_: can you explain, I'm not sure to get what you mean

[20:53] olorin_: of course we'll use pootle

[20:53] olorin_: http://pootle.educoo.org

[20:53] <JZA> ericb2: if you use pootle, I dont see a point on submitting through VCS

[20:54] JZA: this could be done by one of the translators, for a given locale

[20:54] <olorin_> However, we could use the Pootle VCS sync.

[20:54] JZA: again, the problem is people did nothing

[20:54] <olorin_> What else is new.

[20:54] maybe I can continue to present ?

[20:55] <olorin_> Please do.

[20:55] <JZA> ericb2: go ahead

[20:55] so, in 820, 000 or so downloads, I got something around:

[20:56] 45 %  (en-US) and if I cumulate 8 locales over the 17 we provide, we have around 96 % of the downloads

[20:56] Windows is 90% (sigh..)

[20:56] <wooz_> :p

[20:57] Sad to see educoo.us cyber-squatted without being open

[20:57] <olorin_> Hmm.

[20:58] <JZA> ericb2: we could talk with drew, he is the creator of educoo.us

[20:58] <olorin_> Remember when I asked for a more uniform collection of websites? Meaning some common graphics etc.

[20:58] <JZA> ericb2: I talk to him regularly maybe he could fix it.

[20:58] JZA: please do. We tried and so far, things are unclear

[20:59] <JZA> ericb2: I will send him a msg on facebook

[20:59] JZA: thanks a lot

[20:59] At buildtime, the current process is a bit complicated, and I won't enter too far inside

[21:00] basicaly, we build l10n, means we create .sdf files from existing one

[21:01] once l10n is built, graphical modules, including views, controls or whatever, can be built

[21:01] <olorin_> Existing one? The solenv tools?

[21:02] <JZA> ericb2: who will create the SDF?

[21:02] olorin_: in l10n/source/$a_locale are existing .sdf

[21:02] * iap2001 (be281a6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.40.26.107) has joined #ooo4Kids

[21:02] <JZA> ericb2: in OOo before pootle we used to do this manually, but after pootle it was done by the admin automatically.

[21:02] <olorin_> ericb2: The upstream ones, yes.

[21:03] <JZA> ericb2: how many new strings will ooo4kids have in the future? Spanish already have 100% but I would rather know how many new strings will they be generated so I can commit people to it.

[21:03] olorin_: we use existing .sdf. But I got a shell script, who creates new .sdf including the new strings we need for OOo4Kids or OOoLight

[21:03] <olorin_> JZA: In Pootle or by exporting to zip and processing the tree?

[21:03] JZA: not much

[21:04] JZA: but I have several projects in the air. I won't tell more about that tonight

[21:04] olorin_: we need to make a point

[21:04] <JZA> ericb2: if it's not much, I might think pootle is an overkill. But maybe is better. I dunno.

[21:04] olorin_: currently, I separated .sdf in several parts

[21:04] <olorin_> ericb2: Yeah, but a merge would be most beneficial for us at this point.

[21:04] <JZA> ericb2: maybe just editing the sdf is enough.

[21:04] <JZA> sdf is just XML.

[21:05] JZA: not exactly

[21:05] <olorin_> JZA: Well, overkill for us, but we want more people.

[21:05] <olorin_> Editing the raw SDF, without parsing tools, might be a bit risky.

[21:05] JZA: there are strange rules inside, defined in some dark perl script

[21:06] <olorin_> Prone to make errors in there...

[21:06] olorin_: I do that since the begining, but I got a good tool. and yes, this is risky (e.g. for chinese, or any complex UTF-8 based locale)

[21:06] olorin_: I know

[21:06] that's why I'd prefer :

[21:06] <JZA> ericb2: ok good poit

[21:06] <JZA> point

[21:06] 1) create .po from existing .sdf

[21:07] 2) conllect .po and turn them into something usable at buildtime

[21:07] collecgt

[21:07] shit

[21:07] collect

[21:07] <olorin_> Hehe

[21:08] this should be Andrea task to define the process, and propose some script

[21:08] <olorin_> Meaning parsed by Translation Toolkit and converted back into SDF/GSI.

[21:08] olorin_: e.g. or why not directly .xml parsed (.po are .xml )

[21:09] <olorin_> ericb2: Whatever works.

[21:09] First question:  is the Translation Toolkit integrable in the sources ?

[21:09] as module e.g.

[21:09] this way _everybody_ will have the same tool

[21:09] Second question : is the translation kit working correctly on all OS's ?

[21:10] <olorin_> More crucial, which version should we use? We did observe some strings not being extracted in other projects.

[21:10] * JZA got some questions regarding active development, and development instructions and updates.

[21:11] olorin_: this leads to another one : is the couple pootle+translation toolkit usable for all the locales we'd like to provide ?

[21:12] <olorin_> ericb2: Looks like it, based on other projects with the same source.

[21:12] so, one big issue is solved

[21:13] <olorin_> Parsing the raw files at build time shouldn't be a problem either, but how you want to integrate the toolkit (or similar tools) is up to you.

[21:14] <olorin_> JZA: Your thoughts on this subject?

[21:14] if Translation Toolkit is GPL or LGPL, I can add one module, and use it at buildtime

[21:15] <JZA> olorin_: I think everything is clear, but we need to explain the process on the wiki

[21:15] <JZA> olorin_: clear most of the FAQ

[21:17] <olorin_> ericb2: GPL.

[21:17] olorin_: thanks

[21:18] <olorin_> JZA: Of course, but let's make one to describe first shall we? ;-)

[21:19] * iap2001 has quit (Quit: Page closed)

[21:19] <JZA> olorin_: well I +1 it

[21:19] <JZA> for pootle and translation toolkit

[21:19] What about start with existing .sdf in the OOo4Kids sources, and complete ?

[21:20] <olorin_> ericb2: The upstream one you mean?

[21:20] <JZA> ericb2: well I think that for new languages pootle is better

[21:20] <olorin_> Point, to lower the treshold for translators, use a portal solution like Pootle.

[21:20] <JZA> new verion of pootle have better team control

[21:20] * CIA-19 has quit

[21:20] <JZA> is hard to control a team on offline-tools

[21:20] wooz_: what is the current version ?

[21:21] <olorin_> JZA: Also, people can have nice statitics to look at.

[21:21] <wooz_>  ericb2 no idea.. I've to check

[21:22] <JZA> wooz_: do you know the pootle mantainer in OOo?

[21:22] <wooz_> Pootle 1.1.0

[21:22] <wooz_> for our pootle

[21:22] <wooz_> JZA: nope

[21:22] <olorin_> 2.1.6 is the latest one.

[21:22] <JZA> wooz_: could be a good idea to contact him to see how they integrate VCS on their pootle version, but also #pootle channel could answer that.

[21:23] olorin_: indeed. Maybe we could upgrade, as first action item

[21:23] <wooz_> JZA: I'll see that

[21:23] * JZA asking on the #pootle channel

[21:23] <olorin_> FYI, Transifex is a no go if you want to integrate into VCS...

[21:23] <JZA> olorin_: yeah I think we are done with transifex

[21:24] <olorin_> JZA: At least I'm fed up with its shortcomings.

[21:24] <JZA> I understand

[21:25] * ericb2 never received even one answer from the admins

[21:25] -> trash

[21:25] <olorin_> ericb2: A upgrade is must welcome, and as JZA mentioned, it does have some new and flash features-

[21:26] wooz_: is it possible to upgrade pootle.educoo.org ? Or do you need help, or whatever else ?

[21:26] * CIA-22 (cia@cia.atheme.org) has joined #ooo4Kids

[21:27] <olorin_> wooz_: Also, which backends do it make use of?

[21:27] <JZA> wooz_: check here http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/version_control

[21:29] <olorin_> JZA: No mention of LDAP, but Pootle does support it...

[21:29] <JZA> olorin_: I thought adullac was SVN

[21:30] <olorin_> JZA: Isn't it?

[21:30] JZA: OOo4Kids is svn and OooLight will be git

[21:30] <olorin_> No problem there for me.

[21:33] <JZA> ok are we done with l10n?

[21:33] <JZA> any other item?

[21:33] <olorin_> ericb2: I guess you have plans for moving OOo4Kids over to GIT at some point?

[21:33] JZA: do you have other questions about active development, and development instructions and updates ?

[21:33] olorin_: not for the moment

[21:33] * olorin_ need to look at that svn over git thing.

[21:34] <JZA> ericb2: yes I want to know if all the commit history and patches and bugs are done in adullac or somewhere else?

[21:34] JZA: svn commits : yes

[21:34] <JZA> ericb2: also if there is any QA process on the

[21:34] JZA: and git will too

[21:34] <JZA> works

[21:34] JZA: no QA process

[21:34] <JZA> what about TCM (Test case management) to test for bugs.

[21:34] JZA: just a bugzilla and and bugfixing

[21:36] JZA: we do not have the structure for that, and test cases / QA means a bad history for me

[21:36] <olorin_> We need QA or we're screwed.

[21:36] <JZA> ericb2: I know, just regular questions.

[21:37] <JZA> olorin_: I think bugzilla will do it for now

[21:37] <olorin_> Just some simple testcases is required.

[21:37] <JZA> olorin_: we could 'borrow' OOo TCM

[21:37] <JZA> is mostly l10n testing anyway

[21:37] <olorin_> ericb2: More specific, new features.

[21:38] olorin_: I was one of the first to promote QA, e.g. on Mac. and in OOo project, I saw several "manipulators" join. Now, they control people -> not for me

[21:38] <JZA> olorin_: could we do it in the Wiki and keep it simple stupid (KISS)

[21:38] JZA: I'm fine with that

[21:38] <olorin_> JZA: Sure.

[21:38] <olorin_> Publish the cases on the wiki, and results on the ML.

[21:38] <JZA> just a checklist to be doing EN [-] ES [x] FR [x] .... for example

[21:39] <olorin_> Yeah, something like that too.

[21:40] <olorin_> ericb2: We're too busy to control you, so I guess we only want some basic tools around to make life easier for people.

[21:42] FYI, the log of the meeting is there : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Current_events/LogEducOOoInternationalCreationMay2011

[21:47] <JZA> same as current events? or a new page?

[21:47] JZA: there is a "summary" paragraph

[21:47] JZA:  => http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Current_events/LogEducOOoInternationalCreationMay2011

[21:48] <JZA> Ah ok

[21:48] please refresh

[21:49] <JZA> done

[21:50] End of meeting ?

[21:50] <JZA> great I wil get that done later today

[21:50] <JZA> yes

[21:50] see you

[21:50] <olorin_> Finished?

[21:50] olorin_: if you have other questions, shoot

[21:51] To improve readability, I think I'll create sub-page for the logs

[21:42] We need a summary, to help people attending the second part only

[21:42] any candidate to propose a summary ?

[21:43] <olorin_> Who volunteers?

[21:43] * olorin_ looks into the crowd and finds no one.

[21:43] Native speakers, or english fluent people prefered ^^

[21:44] JZA: did the meeting bring you the answers you expected ?

[21:44] <JZA> ericb2: yes, everyting is good now.

[21:45] JZA: ok, great :)

[21:45] <JZA> ericb2: we need to create a minutes of this meeting, I think many decisions were taken.

[21:45] <JZA> ericb2: what is planned for tomorrow?

[21:45] <JZA> oh worry now, I read. Sorry

[21:45] <JZA> *sorry

[21:45] JZA: a point with Marina, and I expect to see Andrea join too

[21:46] <JZA> ericb2: I can do a summary if you want, then someone else can writeproof it.

[21:46] * ericb2 noticed : JZA will write the summary

[21:46] JZA: accepted :)

[21:46] <JZA> ericb2: just tell me where should I write it? (which wikipage)