ImproveMathEquationEditor/IRCMeetings/June2010/29th July2010

This page is the IRC log of the 29th July 2010 IRC meeting ( #education.openoffice.org ) with students for Google SoC 2010.

Back to July 2010

Attendees :


 * Fridrich Strba (Novell)
 * Eric Bachard (OOo Education Project
 * Michal Spisiak (student, Google SoC)
 * Jonas Jopsen (Student, Google SoC)

-

[14:00]  jopsen: hi

[14:01] jopsen: hello

[14:01] Let's start

[14:01] ericb2: yes... agenda ?

[14:02] jopsen: it was in the mail. Minute

[14:02] ericb2: okay... Just though we might post it for the minutes... :)

[14:02] I thought...

[14:03] Agenda:

[14:03] 1) a point on Jonas work

[14:03] * My code review of Jonas's patch

[14:03] * Decide about the implementation

[14:03] * Other issued fixed by Jonas

[14:03] - a point on Michal's fixes

[14:03] * Code review (today's patch I created)

[14:03] * final plan for the implementation

[14:03] * OOo integration

[14:03] ericb2: okay, by the way, you asked us to prepare an outline I wrote a few lines on my status... Is that what you're looking for ?

[14:04] jopsen: yes, exactly

[14:04] Status:

[14:04] Editing is working, code needs some cleanup and a few corner cases needs to be handled.

[14:04] Synchronization between visual and non-visual formula editor needs to be worked out.

[14:04] Integration of the visual formula editor is not really complete.

[14:04] "Formula Elements" browser doesn't work for visual editor.

[14:04] Visual editor doesn't work, when starmath runs in embedded mode, border should also be removed here.

[14:04] Clipboard needs to be finished, and integration with global clipboard.

[14:04] Undo/redo needs to be done and integrated with the document specific undo/redo manager.

[14:05]  News from cws: ause124: nominated

[14:05] ericb2: I might like some ideas about where to look for doing integration with clipboard and undo/redo manager..

[14:06] ericb2: Other than that... I think I've got it under control (i.e. I know how to fix it, or is confident I can figure it out)...

[14:07] jopsen: got 2 questions

[14:07] ericb2: go ahead...

[14:08] 1) do you estimate you have the time to complete until the end  ?

[14:08] 2) did you prepare a documentation, for an eventual student continuing your work ?

[14:09] ericb2: Complete with QA and every thing is probably not likely... Complete to a usable state, hopefully... However, I do expect that I'll have time to work on this after GSoC too...

[14:09] jopsen: I'm not asking about QA

[14:10] jopsen: see you continue after the GSOC, would be great, but my question is important: do you think you can finish

[14:10] ericb2: Yes, I've written some documentation, more is in progress... In my log last night I refered to: http://jopsen.dk/downloads/GSoC2010/docs/visual_formula_editing.html

[14:10] jopsen: I meant : working normaly, not working night and days

[14:11] ericb2: I don't know... That depends on what defines finished... :)

[14:11] ericb2: But to a state where QA is the next thing... yes, I hop I can...

[14:12] jopsen: a prototype working and testable

[14:12] I hope...

[14:12] jopsen: with probably some bugs, but everything implemented

[14:12] ericb2: Prototype working and testable is not far away...

[14:13] ericb2: the todos listed in my status is things I'm fairly sure I can get done...

[14:13] ericb2: But there's likely a lot of compatibility issues and corner cases that might take more work...

[14:14] ericb2: For instance flickering issue should be solved, before final release... But it's not critical for testing...

[14:16] ericb2: If you have no more questions... Maybe we should discuss the code review ?

[14:16] I see Fridrich is not there

[14:17] jopsen: ok, you convinced me

[14:18] jopsen: let's continue this way with your application : provide a working proof of concept.

[14:18] jopsen: considering the (big) amount of work you did, excepted if everything works the first time (not sure at all), you shouldn't have enough of time to complete

[14:18] jopsen: now, the code review

[14:19] jopsen: unfortunaly, your patch is far too big, and I had too much of fuzz and failed to fix, so I was not able to test on my build

[14:19] jopsen: I need to retrieve my notes

[14:20] jopsen: about th style, just some recommandations, since we already agreed about some changes yesterday

[14:20] ericb2: Yes, as little as possible in header files...

[14:21] jopsen: the parenthesis, too : either

[14:21] type aMethod {

[14:21]    bla

[14:21] }

[14:21] ericb2: Yeah, okay... I'll add some spaces... :)

[14:21] or type aMethod

[14:21] {

[14:21]    bla

[14:21] }

[14:21] * Fridrich (~fridrich@166-249.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[14:22] jopsen: I found some functions in the interface

[14:22] jopsen: thats not a fgood idea

[14:22] ericb2: methods ? implemented in header files or static methods ?

[14:23]  don't implement anything in header file, don't expose stl types in header files,...

[14:23]  this is my BOT part that spoke

[14:23] jopsen: either inline them, or as static method, or just declatre the interface and implement in the .cxx

[14:24] s/declatre/declare/

[14:24] ericb2: What functions are you talking about ?

[14:24] jopsen: as I told you, I like your style, very "Design Pattern" oriented

[14:24] jopsen: minute

[14:25] ericb2: You can browser documentation here: http://jopsen.dk/downloads/GSoC2010/docs/classes.html

[14:25] jopsen: e.f. DrawChildren(SmNode* node)

[14:25] jopsen: in visitor.hxx

[14:26] jopsen: and some other. Sorry, I lost my notes, so I must read in the patch directly (but Midnight Commander helps)

[14:27] ericb2: yes... okay... but I should implement as little as possible in header files... So I'll just make it into a normal private method, with implementation in cxx...

[14:27] jopsen: DrawChildren(SmNode* node) is around 25 lines, not normal in an .hxx

[14:27] jopsen: 2 or 3 lines, and inlined method, is ok, but not such one

[14:28] ericb2: okay... not a problem...

[14:28] jopsen: but that's not that important, mostly considering the enormous work you did

[14:28] jopsen: back to the design : everything is clear to me, and well separated

[14:29] jopsen: easy to read, orthogonality is well respected too

[14:30] jopsen: really, you did a good work in my opinion

[14:30] jopsen: th two last points

[14:31] jopsen: I was wondering about the possible performance issues, and what are the limits of what you are achieving : is there something not possible to implement ?

[14:32] ericb2: Performance issues, we might have a few... I still think flickering is the worst... and most of the other stuff can be optimized...

[14:33] jopsen: for example, I had in mind the possibility to disable the feature

[14:33] ericb2: But with the current design of caret movement it is necessary to compute a complete graph over all caret positions when the formula is changed...

[14:33] jopsen: could be usefull to think now how to add this

[14:34] jopsen: maybe cache the previous one ?

[14:34] ericb2: you mean disable visual editing...

[14:34] jopsen: yeah

[14:34] jopsen: e.g. on some poor machines

[14:34] ericb2: That's trivial, just don't use it... E.g. don't click on the formula...

[14:35] jopsen: I meant, children writing simple a over b = ..

[14:35] ericb2: Then it won't do caret position graph computations and stuff...

[14:35] ericb2: not following...

[14:36] ericb2: I'm not following... ?

[14:36] jopsen: imagine a checkbox, somewhere, allowing to desactivate the feature

[14:36] jopsen: somewhere in th UI

[14:36] ericb2: Yes, I don't think that would be a problem... it's just about ignoring input on the SmGraphicWindow

[14:36] jopsen: ok, we'll keep the question open, and continue later

[14:37] jopsen: do you have other questions, remark about your code ?

[14:37] ericb2: Regarding performance I suggest we find performance issues before, crying about it...

[14:37] ericb2: But yes, it may be an issue...

[14:37] jopsen: what machine are you using ? ( proc / RAM )

[14:38] jopsen: I'm talking about Celeron 500 + 128 or 256 MB of RAM, or simple XO machines ( 900 MHz / 256 MB of RAM )

[14:38] ericb2: Core 2 with 2 GiB ram...

[14:38] jopsen: that's not the same ;)

[14:38] jopsen: everything you add in the UI at runtime, may become visible ..

[14:39] jopsen: and you must care of everything with such machines

[14:39] ericb2: agree... but they still run writer... this shouldn't be much harder... but lets test and optimize first...

[14:39] jopsen: I'll continuously read your code now

[14:40] jopsen: because there was too much, and I'll tell you progressively what I found

[14:40] ericb2: that's fine... I didn't expect you to read it all at once...

[14:41] jopsen: I read a lot. First the style, and second everything, more precisely

[14:41] jopsen: 150 KB of patch, is a big patch

[14:42] ericb2: It's a big feature... :)

[14:42] TO progress with the Agenda, we decided to continue the feature implementation

[14:42] (please correct me if I'm wrong)

[14:43] ericb2: What do you mean by "feature implementation" ?

[14:43] jopsen: this is a big feature

[14:43] jopsen: not fully working

[14:44] jopsen: once working, the initial goal will be completed. the next one will be : test, find / fix issues and improve, to integrate it for true

[14:44] jopsen: in the discussion, we agreed the remaining time should be sufficient for the initial goal but the second one could be uncertain.

[14:45] jopsen: do you agree, or did I misunderstand something ?

[14:45] ericb2: Yes... I agree...

[14:46] jopsen: if so, I think your part is done, referring to the Agenda

[14:46] :)

[14:46] ericb2: Good :)

[14:46] Fridrich:, Spiso : any question maybe ?

[14:46]  ericb2: I read everything, but no question...

[14:48] For the record, the meeting will be logged there : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ImproveMathEquationEditor/IRCMeetings/June2010/29th_July2010

[14:48] Spiso: let's start with your application ?

[14:48]  ericb2: okey

[14:49]  ericb2: did you build it with the borders then?

[14:49]  ericb2: and do you have any info from tl about the patch?

[14:49] Spiso:  not yet. I was working with archlinux devs, to integrate OOo4Kids in archlinux, and I didn't find one minute

[14:49] Spiso: let's start

[14:52]  ericb2: with? are you going to build it now? or did you mean something else?

[14:52] Spiso: this is a different application : the amount of code is less important, but every line written means hours of tracing, and analyzing

[14:52] Spiso: I did something else

[14:52]  ericb2: I found out already :)

[14:53] Spiso:  about the patch itself, I have nothing to say : the style is good to me, and when I see TL created a cws imediately, I thought to myself the patch should be ok :)

[14:53]  ericb2: the point is, with the baseline we have to wait for tl what does he think

[14:53]  ericb2: otherwise, I started to work on the highlight and set size feature

[14:53] Spiso:  that's great

[14:54] Spiso: and you solved them, didn't you ?

[14:54]  ericb2: them? I didn't finish it yet, it's not that easy

[14:54]  ericb2: because once again you have to communicate between Sm and Sw

[14:55] Spiso: ok, I was too fast

[14:55]  scorpius_ Spiso

[14:55] Spiso: yet the communication issue

[14:56]  ericb2: I'm currently looking for some code that could send some information to Sm that the user highlighted the object and tried to set the size

[14:56] Spiso: back to the patch : do you use spaces for indentation ? I had a lot of failed, when trying to apply the patch, caused by just the spaces, or maybe tab issues

[14:56] Spiso: ok

[14:57]  ericb2: I use spaces

[14:57] <Spiso> ericb2: well, I use tab that inserts spaces

[14:57] Spiso: 4 spaces for one tab ?

[14:57] <Spiso> ericb2: yes, as it's in the code

[14:57] Spiso: ok

[14:57] Spiso: back to the agenda

[14:58] <Spiso> ericb2: well?

[14:58] Spiso: I think you solved the main issue, and the specification + implementation time is arrived for you

[14:58] jopsen: I have other questions for you, sorry, I forgot

[14:59] jopsen: was about the issues with add some new symbols and so on.

[14:59] <Spiso> ericb2: so I have to write the specification document?

[14:59] Spiso: yes

[14:59] Spiso: and we need to define a final plan for the implementation

[14:59] Spiso: 1) on go-oo 2) in OOo

[14:59] <Spiso> ericb2: I guess there are templates for this in OOo

[14:59] ericb2: Let's take it when you're done discussing with Spiso...

[14:59] Spiso: yes there are, but you'll need to discuss with mbd and tl for the QA step

[15:00] jopsen: +1

[15:00] <Spiso> ericb2: do you know what is needed for go-oo

[15:00] Spiso: provide a patch, and ask for a code review, and some tests.

[15:01] <Spiso> ericb2: to whom? Fridrich?

[15:01] Spiso: Fridrich, thorsten will answer your questions

[15:01] Spiso: and all people from go-oo, better than me

[15:01] * Fridrich (~fridrich@166-249.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has left #education.openoffice.org

[15:01] <Spiso> :)

[15:01] <Spiso> he was afraid that we are going to start asking questions

[15:02] Spiso: I know Fridrich is very busy at the moment

[15:02] Spiso: but you can ring thorsten  ;)

[15:02] Spiso: or Kendy

[15:02] <Spiso> ericb2: alright, so once you build the borders and test a bit I'll send them the patch, asking what has to be done to finally implement to go-oo

[15:02] * Fridrich (~fridrich@166-249.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[&5:03] <Spiso> ericb2: for OOo I'll wait for tl what he'll say about it

[15:03] Spiso: yes, please

[15:03] Spiso: and I'll contact all the sides by email today

[15:03] * Fridrich has quit (Client Quit)

[15:03] Spiso: asking for opinions, and to decide for a possible implementation in OOo

[15:03] * Fridrich1 (~fridrich@166-249.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[15:03] * satellit__ (~satellit@2002:42dc:6d04:0:219:d1ff:fe73:14e6) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[15:03] <Spiso> ericb2: nice, hopefully this will go smoothly

[15:04] Spiso: I remember mba offered to take over the QA side (uff)

[15:05] <Spiso> ericb2: could save me a lot of work so that I can work on something else

[15:05] Spiso: write the specs is difficult, but I'm sure you'll appreciate to notice everything on the wiki

[15:06] <Spiso> ericb2: about writing specs? ...

[15:06] Spiso: yes, this needs more than simple description

[15:07] Can someone remind me the exact timeline for the end of GSoC ?

[15:07] We need to summarize

[15:07] We must add: I'll be on holydays starting tomorrow, until 16th of August

[15:07] ericb2: firm pencil down date: 16th of August...

[15:07] <Spiso> ericb2: ?

[15:08] I'll answermy mails from time to time, but not more

[15:08] <Spiso> ericb2: from time to time, is once a week or once a day?

[15:08] Spiso: maybe twice in a week. Sufficient to keep informed

[15:09] <Spiso> ericb2: ok, I'll discuss with other go-oo people if needed about the implementation

[15:09] <Spiso> ericb2: for the new issue, I hopefully be able to do it on my own

[15:10] Spiso: I think this will be no problem : propose the patch. From my side, I'll ask some people I know to test intensively

[15:10] * tux_addict has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

[15:10] Spiso: the current patch looks very good to me, and what could be missing, is some forgotten cases

[15:10] * tux_addict (~garg@122.177.199.156) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[15:11] Spiso: e.g. like highlighting text to enter new formulaes

[15:11] <Spiso> ericb2: yes, you never know, that's why we need testing

[15:11] Spiso: I can tell you I tested a lot in fact

[15:11] <Spiso> ericb2: send around the borders patch if you can... not just the baseline one

[15:12] Spiso: yes, this needs investigations

[15:12] * tux_addict (~garg@122.177.199.156) has left #education.openoffice.org

[15:12] Spiso: anyway, you found the righttrack to fix this famous bug ( 9 years old ! )

[15:13] jopsen: back to you  ?

[15:13] ericb2: status on new symbols is outline here: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ooo- build/SummerOfCode/2010/Jonas#Sundaythe27thofJune

[15:13] ericb2: just look at the pictures :)

[15:14] jopsen: I did already. Can you send me directly the new files, for testing purpose ?

[15:14] ericb2: The |--> and UNION as operator like SUM works...

[15:14] jopsen: I don't see the angle ?

[15:14] ericb2: You mean the patch?

[15:14] ericb2: No I never got to that one...

[15:14] jopsen: I found it online, but new files, yes please

[15:14] ericb2: new files ?

[15:15] jopsen: can you do it ?

[15:15] * julien_BLUG (~julien@123.115.187.79) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[15:15] ericb2: The patch haven't been update since... AFAIK

[15:15] jopsen: I see a big OpenSymbol.sfd in the patch, is it just a modif, or new file ?

[15:15] jopsen: nevermind, there is no new file

[15:16] ericb2: Oh, yes... That's because I edited OpenSymbol.sfd in FontForge, I needed to add new symbol in font...

[15:16] jopsen: ok

[15:16] jopsen: and nothing for the angle ?

[15:16] jopsen: what about add new .png symbol ?

[15:17] jopsen: thre is a big request from math professors

[15:17] ericb2: No angle is not done... I might find time, if I'm lucky...

[15:17] jopsen: thanks in advance :)

[15:17] To both :

[15:17] I propose as deadline for the code : the 14th August

[15:17] ericb2: .png is not necessary, they are made available through the catalog...

[15:17] jopsen: good

[15:17] Back to the deadline :

[15:18] I propose as deadline for the code : the 14th August, to be able to read it on sunday.

[15:18] Next IRC meeting : the 16th august

[15:18] <Spiso> time?

[15:18] is 14:00 ok ?

[15:18] <Spiso> whenever

[15:18] yes... 14:00 CEST is fine...

[15:19] yes, 14:00 CEST, of course :)

[15:19]  jopsen julien_BLUG JZA

[15:19] jopsen: good catch ;)

[15:19] ericb2: regarding deadline do you just want an email with patches... ?

[15:19] :)

[15:19] jopsen: yes, just that. Better : patch aligned with OOo4Kids if you have time. I'll read your progress on the wiki, or on your blogs

[15:20] jopsen: but priority to the go-oo patches of course

[15:20] Is everything OK ?

[15:20] <Spiso> ericb2: which revision for OOo4Kids? doesn't matter?

[15:20] ericb2: Okay... OOo4Kids what tag ?

[15:20] Spiso: the most recent one if you can

[15:20] <Spiso> ericb2: ok

[15:21] jopsen: Spiso thanks, but first create it with OOo.

[15:21] ericb2: Okay... I'll try... but I'd rather port it to something more generic first...

[15:21] have a patch aligned with OOo4Kids helps me to creat one aligned with OOo

[15:21] jopsen: agreed

[15:21] Any other question ?

[15:22] <Spiso> ericb2: no, have a good holidays ;)

[15:22] Spiso: thanks. But that's not today, and I'll be online tonoght and a bit tomorrow

[15:22] ericb2: Not really... I'll ping Fridrich if I need help when you're gone... Have a good holiday...

[15:22] Ok, let's consider the meeting as over

[15:22] jopsen: thanks