ImproveMathEquationEditor/IRCMeetings/May2010/7th May2010

This page is the IRC log of the 7th May 2010 IRC meeting ( #education.openoffice.org ) with students for Google SoC 2010.

Back to May 2010

[18:00] Fridrich: jopsen :  looks like Michal is not there. Let's start anyway ?

[18:01]  as you wish

[18:01] fine with me...

[18:01] ok, let's start something lighter than expected

[18:01]  ericb2: did you have any answer from michal though?

[18:02] Fridrich: he was ok

[18:02] Fridrich: everybody was ok

[18:02] ok, let's start

[18:02] The Agenda was :

[18:02] - presentations (briefly)

[18:02] - agree the process (wiki, ..., and so on)

[18:02] - discuss and agree a plan for every student

[18:02] - misc question

[18:03] I suggest to postpone the presentations, when everybody will be there

[18:03] agree...

[18:03]  ok

[18:03] Next point is : agree the process (wiki, ..., and so on

[18:04] what I'd like to say, is how important it is to work regularly, and be often on the channel. To be able to react quickly when something wrong occurs

[18:04] My experience with students has shown me that this is a key point

[18:05] sounds like a good idea...

[18:05] next request is to use a wiki, and provide the links to all : Fridrich and me, so, we'll be able to follow regularly from our side

[18:05] the wiki has a great feature : the diff

[18:05] :)

[18:06] and this helps to see the progress, and more ;)

[18:06] yeah... especially when I'm not committing anything...

[18:06] jopsen: do you write everything you do

[18:06] jopsen: like log on text file, or whatever similar solution ?

[18:07] *everything* no...

[18:07] jopsen: ok, so try to improve. The first step is always the most important

[18:07]  jopsen julien_BLUG JZA

[18:07] But notes on the overall progress and notes on how I intend to address issues sounds great...

[18:08] jopsen: I read them, and thats correct, indeed

[18:08] jopsen: but a timeline is mandatory : you must take this habits, to manage time and space

[18:08] BTW what are your thoughts on pushing the starmath module to a public git server... ?

[18:08] jopsen: I'm not sure to understand ?

[18:08] Sure...

[18:09] Well, as I've understood it you want to see patches...

[18:09] But a patch partial patch isn't worth much... Or is it.. ?

[18:09] I mean, what do you suggest in terms of codereview during development

[18:09] jopsen: Fridrich can answer there : I think you should be able to create your own tree, and we'll follow you this way. pushing/pulling code. Fridrich , do you confirm ?

[18:10] jopsen: did you ask for a commit access on freedesktop.org ?

[18:10] that was my thought too...

[18:10] no... but don't go-oo manage everything as .diff files ?

[18:10]  for code-review, mailing a patch to the ooo-build mailing list is the best option

[18:11] Fridrich: thanks

[18:11] jopsen: so we'll work with that: a given tree, and working with it for everything

[18:11] okay...

[18:12] I guess I'll just get used to working with .diff files... :)

[18:12] jopsen: if you have questions, feel free to ask

[18:12] jopsen: say at the end of the meeting ?

[18:12]  jopsen: it is just easy once you get to use the right tool

[18:13] Sure...

[18:13] It's not a problem it just makes in rather uncomfortable to commit often

[18:13] commit or publish... but it's not a critical issue...

[18:14] But I'm okay, with logging my activity on the wiki... so that you can track my progress... So the process seems fine to me...

[18:14] jopsen: about methodology : did you, at the end, succeeed with debugging starmath ?

[18:15]  jopsen: we can see whether we don't do a branch for each one of you and that would maybe be a good solution

[18:15]  will see next week with other peopel

[18:15] jopsen: several points : 1) rebuild with symbols inside the libsmm, 2) replace the lib 3) debug and set breakpoints

[18:16] jopsen: can you confirm all are ok, means you see colored rectangles ?

[18:16] ... when writing an equation

[18:16] I think I tried that running starmath under a debugger...

[18:16] jopsen: and ?

[18:16] haven't activated colored rectangles yet...

[18:17] jopsen: so the symbols are not inside

[18:17] jopsen: the reason is simple: you need to ix the build when doing:  build debug=t

[18:17] okay...

[18:17] jopsen: some genious broken the build a while ago

[18:17] QA is fantastic .. :)

[18:18] okay... it was also a while since I've been debugging it...

[18:18] jopsen: so I invite you to be easy with debugging. This is another key point

[18:18]  other way would be to have a linkoo-ed install

[18:18] Fridrich: agreed

[18:19] * ericb2 would like to summarize

[18:19]  in that case rebuilding the module with debug should provide immediately the possibility to use the debug binaries

[18:19] Fridrich: where is documented the linkoo use ?

[18:19] Fridrich: is it a patch, or something like that to be applied ?

[18:19]  in ooo-build you simply do ./bin/ooinstall -l /some/directory

[18:20]  it will install it there and then will link the *.so back to the build directory

[18:20] did make dev-install, but it should do the same...

[18:20] Fridrich: in fact, I know what do. Was just lazy to create my own patch for OOo4Kids ;-)

[18:21] ok, so as first task (and I'll ask the same to Michal once I'll catch him) :

[18:21]  http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Installing

[18:21] Fridrich: thank you :)

[18:21] back to the initial task :

[18:21] be sure the debug mode works

[18:22] trace the math editor, and be easy with the parser, the rectangles and the nodes

[18:22]  http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Hacking#Linkoo_.26_Limitations

[18:22]  true

[18:22] \me added to his todo: Enable debugmode with fancy colored rectangles...

[18:23] jopsen: I'm not joking : once you got them, you just start the study ...

[18:23] jopsen: and debug is not that easy, that's why learn code, and define objectives in parallel is mandatory

[18:24] did also add it to my todo...

[18:24] jopsen: I read your list, and that's ok

[18:24] * ericb2 will catch Michal very soon

[18:24] jopsen: so, you'll work on the cursor thing

[18:25] yes... I assume that what you want...

[18:25] jopsen: do not what I want, but what has to be done ;)

[18:25] jopsen: I can be wrong sometimes, like everybody

[18:26]  ericb2: you can be wrong? don't tell that in the beginning of week-end, my certainties have to be untouched until Monday<

[18:26] Fridrich: lol :)

[18:27] next meeting : next friday, same day same hour ?

[18:27]  ericb2: but I understand jopsen. He said, "you" as for "us"

[18:27] <Fridrich> great

[18:28] hmm... how about... thursday...

[18:28] <Fridrich> maybe good idea, since friday is for many drinking day :)

[18:29] jopsen:  when  ?

[18:29] Fridrich:  :p

[18:29] jopsen: same hour ?

[18:29] anytime after 16.00... or when it suits michal if he want's to join...

[18:30] <Fridrich> ericb2: thanks a lot for doing a good job

[18:30] jopsen:  16h30 is fine

[18:30] sure... 17.30 is fine...

[18:30] <Fridrich> ericb2: will you catch michal?

[18:30] Fridrich: you're welcome

[18:30] Fridrich: sure I will

[18:30] <Fridrich> you rock

[18:30] jopsen: so I'd prefer 18:00

[18:30] fine with me...

[18:31] jopsen: got to drive my daughter to sport, sorry

[18:31] <Fridrich> 18:00 is such a bad time for me because kids are coming from school and being all around the place

[18:31] * Michal_Spisiak (~chatzilla@stu405.sjc.ox.ac.uk) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[18:31] Fridrich: jopsen: ok, then next meeting is next week 18:00

[18:31] <Fridrich> Michal_Spisiak: ahoj

[18:31] <Michal_Spisiak> hi

[18:31] Michal_Spisiak: hello :)

[18:31] <Michal_Spisiak> cau

[18:31] <Michal_Spisiak> do we wait for smbody?

[18:32] you ?

[18:32] :-)

[18:32] <Michal_Spisiak> :) well, I'm here now

[18:33] <Michal_Spisiak> am I not on time?

[18:33] Fridrich: jopsen : do you still have some time ?

[18:33] Michal: winter time... maybe... :)

[18:33] <Fridrich> yup

[18:33] sure...

[18:33] <Michal_Spisiak> what?

[18:33] Ok, so the first point : presentations was postponed

[18:33] let's do it ?

[18:34] <Michal_Spisiak> ergh

[18:34] fast presentations, no need to write a book ;)

[18:35] <Fridrich> kde bolo tam bolo, za siedmimi horami a siedmimi dolami

[18:35] <Fridrich> ericb2: that you will not understand

[18:35] <Michal_Spisiak> kde sa piesok lial a voda sypala

[18:36] * Michal_Spisiak is now known as MichalS

[18:37] * MichalS is now known as Spiso

[18:37] <Spiso> finally

[18:38] ok, so since the presentations are  .. short :) let's summarize

[18:38] <Fridrich> ;)

[18:38] <Spiso> go on

[18:38] Spiso: I see you used a wiki too ?

[18:39] <Spiso> yes, I wrote you an e-mail

[18:39] Spiso: I'll answer you very soon

[18:39] <Spiso> which I'm not sure you read, as for the past experiences

[18:40] <Fridrich> the best thing for all of you people will be to hang tight on ericb2. I will have a fresh baby in the summer, so I might be a bit busy

[18:40] Spiso: I read it, but I'd like to answer you in "misc" at the end of the meeting

[18:40] <Spiso> alright

[18:41] <Spiso> how do you imagine the presentation then?

[18:42] Spiso: can you tell me more ? Must be my bad english, but I don't get hat you mean

[18:43] <Spiso> I wrote nothing important, just made a comment meaning that let's say what has to be said

[18:43] <Spiso> or I should ask questions?

[18:43] @all :  the IRC meeting will be logged there : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ImproveMathEquationEditor/IRCMeetings/May2010/7th_May2010

[18:44] * ericb2 will complete progressively

[18:44] <Fridrich> ericb2: he was just asking what the presentations mean. so that we can make them

[18:45] \me suggests a 4-tuple of (name, country, work, color of toothbrush)

[18:46] jopsen: yes, something like that

[18:47] (Jonas, Denmark, CS Student, Blue) and will be improving the visual equation editor to work a like MathType, just better :)

[18:47] <Fridrich> (Fridrich, Switzerland, SWE, no teeth)

[18:48] <Spiso> uhm, if you say so... (Michal, Slovakia, M student, yellow I think)

[18:48] <Spiso> and I'm working on alignment for that matter

[18:49] <Fridrich> for eric it is: (Eric, France, Physics Professor, Corega Tabs)

[18:49] lol :)

[18:49] Fridrich: thank you

[18:49] if I can add information :

[18:49] Spiso: Jonas (aka jopsen there) uses : http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ooo-build/SummerOfCode/2010/Jonas

[18:49] Spiso: where is your wiki page ?

[18:50] <Spiso> well nowhere, for the project I'm using yours http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ImproveMathEquationEditor/Baseline_AlignmentEquations

[18:51] Spiso: ok, but if you can modify something, you must be logged in, and if so, you should havea personnal page ?

[18:51] <Spiso> yes, I'm logged, but didn't put there anything

[18:52] Spiso:  probably http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Users:MSpisiak

[18:52] Spiso: can you confirm us, that you'll put everything there ?

[18:52] * Fridrich does not have personal page either, but I also still remember to program in fortran on punch cards, so this computer stuff is a bit new for me

[18:52] <Fridrich> Just to give you background:

[18:52] <Fridrich> 1) You are all six our GSoC students brilliant people

[18:53] <Spiso> what you mean by everything? I meant to work with the one you created?

[18:53] <Spiso> sorry, there should be no question mark at the end

[18:53] <Fridrich> 2) In the past we had experiences where brilliant people when not focused did not pass mid-terms because of problems to show progress and lack of communications

[18:54] Spiso: that's nice, but where will you log what you do, say everay day, or two days ?

[18:54] <Fridrich> 3) we don't want that to happen this year

[18:54] <Fridrich> 4) so we focus on communication in this first phase so that we can focus on work in the following ones

[18:54]  Fridrich froumi

[18:54] Fridrich: +1

[18:55] sounds good...

[18:56] <Fridrich> I would even contend that an e-mail to ooo-build mailing list daily to notify about progress is the best thing

[18:56] <Spiso> alright so I should write there how was my today's trace what I was trying to do, what found out and such like

[18:56] Spiso: not everything, but the most important

[18:56] <Fridrich> people will have to go to wiki to read wiki, they chew their e-mail with morning coffee and will know what happens

[18:57] <Spiso> well, but if daily, than they would have to have litres of morning coffee

[18:57] Spiso: this is Summer of code  ;-)

[18:57] <Fridrich> Last year, that one way allowed people that are not mentoring, but have expertise, to pinch in

[18:57] <Fridrich> Spiso: coffee is not a problem

[18:57] <Fridrich> it is cheap and it is everywhere

[18:58] <Fridrich> Spiso: but if you insist with morning Slivovica will work too

[18:58] <Spiso> okey

[18:58] <Spiso> well, I wouldn't do much work that day if I drank it in the morning

[18:59] <Fridrich> ake si ty slovacisko

[18:59] <Fridrich> ;)

[18:59] I propose the final part :  misc questions

[18:59] <Fridrich> ok

[18:59] fine...

[19:00] Spiso: before, a detail : we proposed the next IRC meeting next week, on thursday 18:00

[19:00] Spiso: your questions now ?

[19:00] <Spiso> what is your time now?

[19:00] <Spiso> 6?

[19:00] <Fridrich> 19:00

[19:00] Spiso: 19:00

[19:00] <Spiso> because we cheked it before?

[19:00] <Spiso> didn't we?

[19:01] Spiso: we did, before you arrive. That's why we need your opinion

[19:01] Spiso: if not possible, we'll search another time

[19:01] <Spiso> it's fine

[19:02] OK .. so next meeting defintely Thursday 13rd May 18:00 CEST

[19:02] <Spiso> I meant that some day before I checked with you that we have the same time and you said yes

[19:02] <Spiso> okey

[19:02] <Fridrich> ok

[19:03] <Fridrich> ko

[19:03] Spiso:  the first question, about operator use, is a question I'll answer on the wki

[19:03] <Fridrich> have to go to bathe the kids

[19:03] great...

[19:03] <Spiso> my questions were in the email, just some syntax thing

[19:03]  Fridrich froumi

[19:03] <Spiso> will you add it there?

[19:03] Fridrich: ok, no problem : the log will tell you

[19:03] Spiso: in fact, I'd have prefered to see your questions on the ooo-build list

[19:04] Spiso: we should start with public questions, thus everybody will be able to help

[19:04] <Spiso> I'm not very keen on spoiling mailing lists

[19:04] <Fridrich> Spiso: it is not about spoiling, it is about many heads that have more brain

[19:05] Spiso: you shouldn't : this is the best place. Don't imagine everybody knows everything

[19:05] Spiso: And more students not asking the same questions :)

[19:05] <Spiso> I thought that it's just smth stupid what you can answer in one sentense

[19:05] Spiso: don't state too much ;-)

[19:05] <Fridrich> Spiso: we are all somehow stupid, so don't care about image :)

[19:06] Spiso: the second question attracted my attention : you are right there is something wrong

[19:06] * ericb2 will paste the question

[19:06] <Spiso> but the code looks like it works

[19:06] <Spiso> maybe it's just in your documentation of code

[19:07] <Spiso> I'm going to check it through gdb

[19:07] Spiso: maybe, but not yet the part about operators

[19:07] Spiso: the question was:

[19:07] the second thing which I was really confused with is again in SmBinVerNode::Arrange the last line:

[19:07] 01130         ExtendBy(*pDenom, RCP_NONE).ExtendBy(*pLine, RCP_NONE, pLine->GetCenterY);

[19:07] What is the dot in the middle doing there?

[19:07] <Spiso> I know

[19:07] Spiso: ah, ok

[19:08] Spiso: will you be online tonight ?

[19:08] Spiso: this will let you some time to read the wiki page I wrote, and then we'll try to answer the first question, about operator's use ?

[19:09] <Spiso> I've got a meet up at 9pm (your 10) I'll be that time

[19:09] <Spiso> ... I'll be until then

[19:09] Spiso: ok, I'll be there anyway

[19:09] Spiso: just ping me in one hur

[19:09] <Spiso> do you have to go noe?

[19:09] <Spiso> now?

[19:10] Spiso: yes, I do : dinner time, and my wife already asked me ;)

[19:10] Spiso: so I'll be back in  ~ 45 minutes

[19:10] <Spiso> just go :)

[19:10] Spiso: is it ok ?

[19:10] <Spiso> yes

[19:10] jopsen: Spiso : let's consider the meeting is over ?

[19:10] <Spiso> ok

[19:10] ok..

[19:11] * ericb2 has changed the topic to: "Welcome on OpenOffice.org Education Project IRC channel !  Mailing list: dev@education.openoffice.org  Wiki: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project. Please visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project/Effort, next  IRC meeting: Thursday 13rd  May 2010 16:00 UTC, 18:00 CEST (Par

[19:11] see you later